Dropping Gentoo

We’ve been using Gentoo for shipped products since June 2005, and as a development platform since September 2004. A long time, an incredibly long time in fact.

Today our final Gentoo using product shipped, with a single scheduled update promised in Q3-2015. It is kind of sad day, but we all knew that day was coming and it takes only a little inside knowledge to know why.


A couple of people have rightly pointed out that I was a little harsh in this document, so I’ve pushed a followup.

Landscapes have changed

Back when we started using Gentoo it was clearly the best choice for what we needed; a easily coercible base on which to construct our Linux devices. There actually weren’t a lot of viable choices back then.

Debian, which many of us loved, felt like the only mainstream distribution we could have used. Unfortunately, it wasn’t available for the arches we needed. It also didn’t package many of things we used at that point, but to be fair there were ITPs (were they called that back then?) already floating about for most of them.

The “from source” options available then would, for all intents and purposes, have meant taking on the support costs of the entire stack which nobody wanted to commit to. As it turns out that burden slowly crept up on us over the next ten years anyway.

Take a left in 100 metres

Over the years we regrettably diverged heavily from upstream, almost to the point that saying we use Gentoo almost feels like a lie.

Before our first product shipped we had already switched to maintaining the essential toolchain packages like GCC and glibc ourselves. I can’t recall the specific reasons as I didn’t work on them, but I recall agreeing with them.

At some point we started using a custom package manager, initially just a new drop-in resolver and eventually a completely independent package manager. portage was ferociously buggy in places and also appeared to be moribund, so it seemed like the correct choice. We never supported the full range of features that Gentoo’s PMS now defines, but it made the support surface a lot nicer.

There was a point where we seriously considered moving to a Conary-based infrastructure. It did loads of the cool things we wanted to do and it mostly fitted our workflow with its “Gentoo done right” feel. Sadly, it has a CLA which none of us could sign that practically guaranteed we would eventually be in the same place we were with Gentoo. May have been a fortuitous roadblock in the end, as Conary never gained the traction it once promised(perhaps in part because of that CLA?).

Had we waited another five months, there would have been another open source package manager for Gentoo we could have easily switched to and hacked on. There is perhaps a pattern here…

Upstreaming changes

Of course, running a non-standard package manager and a thick layer of custom packages at the bottom of the stack made contributing changes back upstream very time consuming. Many of us tried, but eventually most stopped.

Anyone who was running Gentoo in the mid-00’s will recall the giant wedge that got in the way of reporting bugs, and sadly by the time it disappeared many of us had lost interest.

If you had ran the gauntlet and lucked out with a bug in front of a developer, there was a new barrier that many were irked by: lack of attribution. It never bothered me, but the number of developers who wouldn’t even reference a bug report in the ChangeLog was huge. That taught me a valuable personal lesson, I always attribute a commit to the reporter even when I’ve significantly mangled a patch to make it acceptable.

For a time, to ease the annoyance we used to play a game where we reported real bugs with patches, but using silly data for emerge --info. It was definitely fun while it lasted, but it didn’t solve the pain points. Not wanting to be associated with the bugs made people use pseudonyms, which also removed the expectation of attribution too.

I kept trying to report trivial and cosmetic bugs - ones which didn’t require a huge upfront investment - for some time, but they’d go unchanged for weeks or months so I stopped doing that too

Looking around now there is an automatically generated list of bugs with patches which we’ve fixed but haven’t upstreamed, and a few random entries from it look like this:

$ wc -l ~/gentoo/to_push/jay.rst
1157 /home/jay/gentoo/to_push/jay.rst
$ wc -l ~/gentoo/to_push/mattias.rst
2104 /home/jay/gentoo/to_push/mattias.rst
$ wc -l ~/gentoo/to_push/chrisp.rst
873 /home/jay/gentoo/to_push/chrisp.rst

That genuinely upsets me greatly. The amount of potential duplicated effort they represent is enormous, and I don’t even want to attempt to put a figure on it.

Supporting upstream

We’re entirely to blame. We always planned on supporting upstream in whichever way we could. That fell down for instances beyond sending patches too.

The story that comes to mind is from a chance encounter at LinuxWorld back in 2005. We had managed to gather a whole heap of really cool hardware to donate to projects who were exhibiting on the day we attended, and it felt nice handing out toys as a little “thank you” to the projects we depended on.

It wasn’t all roses though. My manager went off to offer some ARM-based devices to the Gentoo guys who were there, but was met with “tremendous rudeness” from the person manning their desk at the time. In hindsight people could have predicted a similar outcome, and it was just an unlucky moment for him to walk up. That soured his enthusiasm no end, and it was the last time we managed to score bags of toys to randomly give away to developers on any project.

If you were one of the people who received a Nokia tablet or ZipIt in the Hand & Flower that evening, you now know the reason and perhaps you can even guess who to thank.

A year or so later I watched a similar scenario play out at the Gentoo UK conference with a potential sponsor and the same developer. Evening beers were met with other people telling stories about that same person, which was a shame as it probably cost them a few good cash and infrastructure sponsors that day alone.

Support costs

Over time we’ve come to support most of the tree that people refer to as gentoo-x86 ourselves. The toolchain changes we needed at the time necessitated supporting a few packages further up the stack. Our desire to trim the tree of a few categories that were problematic, meant replacing a variety of packages with then unavailable dependencies.

And there were many other examples too…


We packaged matchbox and its associated packages a long, long time before they hit the official tree. It was the first real pain point we had with packages appearing in the tree after we had already been using them.

When they did eventually hit the tree we had to carry workarounds for years. At some point we stopped trying and just scrubbed the ebuilds that got in the way.


The state of the Python packaging a few years ago made us take the jump to replace or remove anything that packaged a Python module. Initially very time consuming, but it saved an enormous amount of grief.

I suspect we could move closer to upstream at this point, but the point is now moot.


We switched to systemd before the package was in upstream’s tree, and we have had to keep supporting it to this day because of insurmountable packaging differences.

In a few places that means taking on packages with a reverse dependency too, where differences create issues. And it clearly means taking on any package that depends on openrc or Gentoo’s baselayout package. Those packages are becoming fewer and fewer by the day though, so that would have become a non-issue.


We had been packaging x.org’s packages to work around some implementation differences with upstream since the dawn of modular X. Mostly just to do with how dependencies were specified to start with, but they’re no longer even remotely similar.

Luckily there isn’t a great deal of churn in the packages we care about for the most part, so it never caused a huge time sink.

The end is nigh

At some point it began to feel like we were maintaining our own distribution from end-to-end, and that wasn’t fun. It also wasn’t what any of us needed to do, and the time it was taking measurably ate in to real project time.

The decision to start weaning ourselves off of Gentoo was made back in the summer of last year, and it has finally started to come in to effect.

The Times They Are a-Changing

There are plenty of good alternatives out there now for building systems that need to run on a variety of architectures. Some binary, some source-based and a few hybrid approaches.

The project I’m working on right now is using Debian testing, and it appears to be working out fine. Some things still annoy me, like the time it takes to patch and recreate a package. It is a trivial thing with Gentoo, but requires far too much work with Debian. Perhaps we’ll improve the workflow enough as we develop more experience.

We’ve also hit a good moment to use Debian because a whole heap of work has gone in to making Debian easier to bootstrap, and it definitely shows. When I find out who has done all the magic to make that happen I’ll scribble down a note to owe them some beers.

We’re also lucky in that we employ two Debian developers, one is practically a funded full-time Debian developer. They’re incredibly knowledgeable and it makes working with Debian a lot easier, so thanks guys!

All told, things look good. We’re still playing with some alternatives and as yet no concrete decisions have been made, but I feel like we’re on the right track for the next ten years.

So long Gentoo, and thanks for all fish!